2008-05-10T13:06:55  <Prod> Hello and welcome to another exciting StrategyWiki meeting
2008-05-10T13:07:13  <Prod> Due to IRC troubles, this was postponed from last week
2008-05-10T13:07:29  <Prod> So, lets jump right into our first set of announcements
2008-05-10T13:07:37  <Prod> We've had two promotions this month
2008-05-10T13:08:02  <Prod> Due to his continuous quality edits, and improvements to pages all over the wiki
2008-05-10T13:08:12  <Prod> Rob1981 has been promoted to Sysop
2008-05-10T13:08:12  *** PowerMatt has joined #SW-Meeting
2008-05-10T13:08:42  <Prod> Secondly, I have been promoted to Bureaucrat, thanks to everyone who supported me :)
2008-05-10T13:08:53  * Notmyhandle claps excitedly.
2008-05-10T13:09:00  <Skizzerz> :)
2008-05-10T13:09:29  <Prod> So next up on our agenda: "Main Page and SW:CP changes"
2008-05-10T13:09:46  *** Bmuig has joined #SW-Meeting
2008-05-10T13:09:59  <Prod> As the site is a bit slow at the moment, I'm going to leave that one for later
2008-05-10T13:10:14  <Bmuig> hiho y'all
2008-05-10T13:10:16  <Prod> Next one is MW 1.12
2008-05-10T13:10:21  <Prod> Welcome Bmuig
2008-05-10T13:10:27  * Skizzerz welcomes PowerMatt and Bmuig
2008-05-10T13:10:31  <Notmyhandle> What are we currently running
2008-05-10T13:10:32  <Notmyhandle> ?
2008-05-10T13:10:40  <Prod> We are currently at 1.11
2008-05-10T13:10:42  <Skizzerz> Notmyhandle: currently 1.11.2
2008-05-10T13:10:51  <Notmyhandle> Is the upgrade necessary?
2008-05-10T13:10:56  <Prod> That's the question
2008-05-10T13:11:02  <Skizzerz> not really, in fact it'll break some things
2008-05-10T13:11:10  <Prod> yea
2008-05-10T13:11:14  <Notmyhandle> extension-wise?
2008-05-10T13:11:16  <Prod> yup
2008-05-10T13:11:18  <Skizzerz> DPL will no longer work as expected (although that might be a good thing)
2008-05-10T13:11:24  <Prod> :P
2008-05-10T13:11:44  <Notmyhandle> We are using DPL for... requested guides and requests for featured guides right?
2008-05-10T13:11:51  <Skizzerz> no
2008-05-10T13:11:53  <Prod> and category pages
2008-05-10T13:12:00  <Prod> system category pages
2008-05-10T13:12:01  <Skizzerz> just category pages iirc
2008-05-10T13:12:12  <Prod> and guide completion
2008-05-10T13:12:20  <Skizzerz> oyeah
2008-05-10T13:12:30  <Skizzerz> guide completion would be completely broken by the upgrade
2008-05-10T13:12:42  <Notmyhandle> So our next upgrade is going to require a lot of maintenance it sounds like...
2008-05-10T13:12:51  <Notmyhandle> Perhaps wait until 1.13?
2008-05-10T13:12:52  <Prod> Appears to be so
2008-05-10T13:12:53  <Skizzerz> it would require a small patch
2008-05-10T13:13:01  <Skizzerz> 1.13 will have the same issue
2008-05-10T13:13:12  <Notmyhandle> Right but things will obviously be different.
2008-05-10T13:13:13  <Skizzerz> since it arises from the parser change
2008-05-10T13:13:25  <Skizzerz> yes, things are much different in 1.13
2008-05-10T13:13:38  <Prod> Theyve also got image redirects working in 1.12
2008-05-10T13:13:41  <Notmyhandle> When do you think that will be released?
2008-05-10T13:13:46  <Notmyhandle> 1.13
2008-05-10T13:13:53  <Skizzerz> probably June or July-ish
2008-05-10T13:13:57  <Prod> moving images is implemeted in 1.13
2008-05-10T13:13:58  <Notmyhandle> Not far off...
2008-05-10T13:14:03  <Notmyhandle> "moving images"?
2008-05-10T13:14:11  <Prod> just like you can move pages now
2008-05-10T13:14:12  <Notmyhandle> Like marquees? ahahah
2008-05-10T13:14:16  <Notmyhandle> ohhh!
2008-05-10T13:14:24  <Notmyhandle> Wow that sounds awesome
2008-05-10T13:14:30  <Notmyhandle> Rocky is going to cry
2008-05-10T13:14:40  <Notmyhandle> After all those renames...
2008-05-10T13:14:46  <Prod> it was useful back then
2008-05-10T13:14:54  <Prod> without him, the place would be a much bigger mess
2008-05-10T13:14:59  <Prod> it's now just easier to do :D
2008-05-10T13:14:59  <Notmyhandle> xD
2008-05-10T13:15:01  <Prod> well
2008-05-10T13:15:05  <Prod> "Fixed in r34169. This is currently experimental, and need more testing. I'll
2008-05-10T13:15:05  <Prod> ask Brion to enable it on testwiki. After testing this will be VERIFIED and
2008-05-10T13:15:05  <Prod> enabled by default.
2008-05-10T13:15:09  <Prod> "
2008-05-10T13:15:19  <Notmyhandle> In the works
2008-05-10T13:15:20  <Prod> so we'll have to see if it makes it for 1.13
2008-05-10T13:15:28  <Skizzerz> hmm... I'll update my test wiki and check that out
2008-05-10T13:15:31  <Prod> that was posted last week
2008-05-10T13:16:00  <Prod> hmm... SW:CP redirects to cleanup project, not community portal....
2008-05-10T13:16:18  <Notmyhandle> yeeah..
2008-05-10T13:16:25  <Skizzerz> that should be changed :P
2008-05-10T13:16:31  * Prod changes it
2008-05-10T13:16:34  <Prod> ok
2008-05-10T13:16:37  <Notmyhandle> cleanup project is like our hidden agenda
2008-05-10T13:16:37  <Notmyhandle> ahaha
2008-05-10T13:16:51  <Notmyhandle> So, for MW 1.12 - does it look worthwhile?
2008-05-10T13:16:54  <Prod> so if we do go to 1.12, Skizzerz, do you know any other major issues that may show up?
2008-05-10T13:17:18  <Skizzerz> not really, but with 1.13 coming up pretty soon, I'd recommend against it anyway
2008-05-10T13:17:39  <Skizzerz> oh, and {{PAGESINCATEGORY}} is now default in 1.13 as well
2008-05-10T13:17:42  <Prod> yea
2008-05-10T13:17:53  <Notmyhandle> Can u elaborate on that?
2008-05-10T13:18:02  <Notmyhandle> what is pagesincategory used for
2008-05-10T13:18:08  <Prod> PAGESINCATEGORY has so far been a patch done by us
2008-05-10T13:18:17  <Skizzerz> Notmyhandle: counting the number of pages in a category. it's used on the main page
2008-05-10T13:18:18  <Prod> it was previously just a diff that we manually implemented
2008-05-10T13:18:30  <Prod> check the wikimarkup ont he front page
2008-05-10T13:18:34  <Prod> there's a link to the bug
2008-05-10T13:18:40  <Notmyhandle> I see (hmm, I remember asking for that feature back when I originally joined SW - w00t w00t).
2008-05-10T13:18:41  <Prod> in 1.13, it'll be default and we don't have to fix it
2008-05-10T13:18:57  <Skizzerz> also, BlueCloud.php and BlueCloud's css file need updating for the new stuff added into monobook
2008-05-10T13:19:05  <Prod> 1.12 apparently has some stuff in it that helps with multipleupload as well
2008-05-10T13:19:26  <Prod> one less manual hack that has to be done by us
2008-05-10T13:19:29  <Skizzerz> 1.12 would also allow for a php-based force preview for anons
2008-05-10T13:19:42  <Prod> oh, cool
2008-05-10T13:19:44  <Notmyhandle> Which would be good.
2008-05-10T13:19:53  <Prod> instead of just disabling js
2008-05-10T13:19:56  <Notmyhandle> js ftl
2008-05-10T13:20:08  <Notmyhandle> On the topic of skins - is there still talk of a "new" skin?
2008-05-10T13:20:13  <Prod> no
2008-05-10T13:20:17  <Skizzerz> none that I know of
2008-05-10T13:20:23  <Prod> BC is our final skin
2008-05-10T13:20:31  <Skizzerz> also, Modern fails
2008-05-10T13:20:31  <Prod> there was talk about a year ago
2008-05-10T13:20:36  <Thatguy> what about the forums?
2008-05-10T13:20:40  <Prod> but it just died off since BC is good enough
2008-05-10T13:20:46  <Notmyhandle> Forums skins aren't a problem
2008-05-10T13:20:51  <Notmyhandle> Teddy is taking care of that
2008-05-10T13:21:21  <Notmyhandle> For the MediaWiki:Common.css
2008-05-10T13:21:36  <Notmyhandle> We need to do some cleanup...
2008-05-10T13:21:41  <Skizzerz> yeah
2008-05-10T13:21:42  <Notmyhandle> Or rather I do.
2008-05-10T13:21:45  <Prod> oh?
2008-05-10T13:21:59  <Notmyhandle> Back when I was working on CrimsonNight reskin, I had this idea that we would enable multiple skins
2008-05-10T13:22:36  <Notmyhandle> I ran into a roadblock with CN, noticing that some things could never really be changed (can't think of them atm) - perhaps without being a "built in" skin.
2008-05-10T13:22:53  <Notmyhandle> Anyways the whole class disambig thing was part of that development
2008-05-10T13:22:58  <Notmyhandle> and it's not necessary...
2008-05-10T13:23:04  <Skizzerz> yep
2008-05-10T13:23:09  <Notmyhandle> I'm talking template specific classes
2008-05-10T13:23:15  <Notmyhandle> There's probably 20 we can remove
2008-05-10T13:23:27  <Prod> I think those should be brought up in CI
2008-05-10T13:23:33  <Prod> start a thread and we can discuss them one by one
2008-05-10T13:23:36  <Skizzerz> yeah
2008-05-10T13:23:39  <Prod> so, for 1.12
2008-05-10T13:23:44  <Prod> can we say we wait for 1.13?
2008-05-10T13:23:47  <Skizzerz> sure
2008-05-10T13:23:51  <Notmyhandle> I vote yes.
2008-05-10T13:23:56  <Prod> anyone say no?
2008-05-10T13:24:18  <Skizzerz> by then the DPL issue should be fixed too (all I have to do for that really is just implement a patch)
2008-05-10T13:24:27  <Notmyhandle> Which will be awesome.
2008-05-10T13:24:35  <Prod> Ok
2008-05-10T13:24:46  <Skizzerz> which I'll do right now
2008-05-10T13:24:48  <Prod> so now we can go back to our previous topic whcih we skipped
2008-05-10T13:24:54  <Skizzerz> so brb in a bit
2008-05-10T13:24:58  <Prod> Main page and SW:Community Portal updates
2008-05-10T13:25:20  <Prod> I'll begin with the CP as it's smaller
2008-05-10T13:25:26  <Prod> To begin with
2008-05-10T13:25:51  <Prod> We need someone to either write up a PGotM summary
2008-05-10T13:25:59  <Prod> or we need to get rid of PGotM completely
2008-05-10T13:26:26  <Prod> Any takers?
2008-05-10T13:26:29  * Skizzerz votes get rid of it
2008-05-10T13:26:40  * Prod votes to remove it as well
2008-05-10T13:26:49  <Notmyhandle> If it wasn't a community thing, it would be easier
2008-05-10T13:27:12  <Prod> from previous meetings
2008-05-10T13:27:21  <Prod> another suggestion was to replace it with a "Spotlight"
2008-05-10T13:27:32  <Notmyhandle> Right - I don't think the name matters.
2008-05-10T13:27:40  <Notmyhandle> It's just a pain to limit ourselves to voting
2008-05-10T13:27:54  <Notmyhandle> Since the community lacks involvement.
2008-05-10T13:27:56  <Prod> Usually the votes come down to whoever writes up the summary
2008-05-10T13:28:01  <Notmyhandle> Right..
2008-05-10T13:28:14  <Prod> however, we're slowly trying to promote the CP more
2008-05-10T13:28:18  <Notmyhandle> I would be ok with this feature if the sysops could just say - oh GTA4?  Alright PGotM
2008-05-10T13:28:23  <Prod> and it should start getting better visibility soon
2008-05-10T13:28:38  <Prod> usually it's only the sysops who vote,s o that should be fine :P
2008-05-10T13:28:45  <Prod> I'd say leave it as a vote
2008-05-10T13:29:26  <Bmuig> I've said this before: I thinkwe should change the focus of PGotM
2008-05-10T13:29:37  <Notmyhandle> To what?
2008-05-10T13:29:42  <Bmuig> cause for things like GTAIV, we've got Collaboration
2008-05-10T13:29:57  <Bmuig> it should be something to encourage people who just finished their first page
2008-05-10T13:30:01  <Prod> Bmuig had suggested earlier a focus on quality contributions from our members
2008-05-10T13:30:13  <Bmuig> so that we have something that says: good, keep up the good work etc..
2008-05-10T13:30:18  <Prod> which is why i suggest the "Spotlight"
2008-05-10T13:30:32  <Prod> it'll allow us to pick "these guides improved well"
2008-05-10T13:30:45  <Prod> they may not be ready for cs4/5, but they did well
2008-05-10T13:31:25  <Notmyhandle> Yeah it would be good to point out specific bare-bones guide
2008-05-10T13:31:26  <Notmyhandle> s
2008-05-10T13:31:33  <Notmyhandle> Like the ones in Requested Guides
2008-05-10T13:31:38  <Skizzerz> <CIA-50> skizzerz * r34594 /trunk/phase3/includes/Parser.php: Fix for bug 13677 <- aka DPL bug has been fixed in 1.13
2008-05-10T13:31:45  <Notmyhandle> Or ones that could use some more help (single editor guides)
2008-05-10T13:31:51  <Prod> (Skizzerz): nice
2008-05-10T13:32:39  <Prod> I think this could be a major discussion
2008-05-10T13:32:43  <Prod> so I'd suggest this
2008-05-10T13:32:47  <Notmyhandle> It has been...
2008-05-10T13:33:05  <Prod> (Bmuig): can you start a thread on the forums suggesting "Change PGotM to ****"
2008-05-10T13:33:13  <Bmuig> sure
2008-05-10T13:33:20  <Notmyhandle> Maybe not use 4 stars... lol
2008-05-10T13:33:24  <Prod> and then we can actually start some discussion on what to do with it
2008-05-10T13:33:25  <Prod> :P
2008-05-10T13:33:34  <Prod> fill in whatever you want for those *'s :P
2008-05-10T13:33:39  <Bmuig> :)
2008-05-10T13:33:48  <Notmyhandle> It's a tough issue
2008-05-10T13:33:52  <Prod> yea
2008-05-10T13:33:58  <Notmyhandle> Cuz it's like, what's going to benefit our community the most
2008-05-10T13:34:02  <Prod> right
2008-05-10T13:34:14  <Prod> so once that thread is opened, post your comments and we'll see where it goes
2008-05-10T13:34:25  <Prod> which leave one empty box on the CP
2008-05-10T13:34:36  <Prod> any suggestions on what to do with it?
2008-05-10T13:34:56  <Skizzerz> re-implement one of the sections we removed before?
2008-05-10T13:35:04  <Prod> which?
2008-05-10T13:35:04  <Notmyhandle> Wait what have we removed?
2008-05-10T13:35:12  <Skizzerz> can't remember -_-
2008-05-10T13:35:25  <Prod> the only thing I remember we removed is the "top 10" lists
2008-05-10T13:35:38  <Prod> those were killing the server with their cpu usage
2008-05-10T13:35:46  <Notmyhandle> sadly, those are very popular
2008-05-10T13:35:51  <Prod> and I really don't want to bring them back
2008-05-10T13:35:52  <Notmyhandle> i wish we could have them
2008-05-10T13:36:09  <Notmyhandle> but yeah performance wise it doesn't seem possible
2008-05-10T13:37:00  <Prod> so, any other suggestions for that empty box?
2008-05-10T13:37:19  <Skizzerz> if I could load sw -_-
2008-05-10T13:37:34  <Prod> (Skizzerz): log in as anonmyous
2008-05-10T13:37:37  <Prod> you'll get a cached version
2008-05-10T13:37:47  <Notmyhandle> Temporarily we could have a "help" notice
2008-05-10T13:37:54  <Prod> already do
2008-05-10T13:37:54  <Prod> :P
2008-05-10T13:38:00  <Notmyhandle> Something like "Looking for wiki help? Post in the forums!"
2008-05-10T13:38:01  <Prod> the "Ways you can help" was moved there
2008-05-10T13:38:04  <Notmyhandle> no no
2008-05-10T13:38:07  <Prod> oh
2008-05-10T13:38:07  <Notmyhandle> requests for help
2008-05-10T13:38:18  <Prod> Need some help?
2008-05-10T13:38:19  <Prod> * Check out our guide to StrategyWiki.
2008-05-10T13:38:19  <Prod> * Problem with wiki markup? Ask for help at the Staff lounge.
2008-05-10T13:38:19  <Prod> * Find live help on IRC.
2008-05-10T13:38:19  <Prod> * Ask for help on an administrator's talk page.
2008-05-10T13:38:28  <Prod> that's already on the front page
2008-05-10T13:38:36  <Notmyhandle> Mmmk
2008-05-10T13:39:45  <Notmyhandle> i really can't think of anything?
2008-05-10T13:39:49  <Prod> ok, so we'll leave that for later
2008-05-10T13:39:57  <Notmyhandle> Maybe just make the page a triangle
2008-05-10T13:40:01  <Notmyhandle> instead of a square...
2008-05-10T13:40:01  <Notmyhandle> aaha
2008-05-10T13:40:04  <Prod> yea
2008-05-10T13:40:16  <Prod> move the projects stuff down and make it full width instead of half
2008-05-10T13:40:25  <Prod> ok, so on to the front page
2008-05-10T13:40:31  <Prod> oh one more about the SW:CP
2008-05-10T13:40:33  <Prod> the talk page
2008-05-10T13:40:39  <Prod> what do we do with all those histories
2008-05-10T13:40:46  <Prod> archives *
2008-05-10T13:41:02  <Skizzerz> move them into the forum? idk
2008-05-10T13:41:03  <Prod> Leave them there?
2008-05-10T13:41:09  <Prod> I was thinking that as well
2008-05-10T13:41:14  <Notmyhandle> How would u do that...
2008-05-10T13:41:14  <Prod> but then we loose histories
2008-05-10T13:41:24  <Prod> lose *
2008-05-10T13:41:25  <Notmyhandle> No need to move them
2008-05-10T13:41:43  <Prod> the SWt:CP is now for discussions about the CP
2008-05-10T13:41:43  <Notmyhandle> Just make an archive main page - throw on Category:Official pages and voila!
2008-05-10T13:42:07  <Prod> I'll start a thread about it on that page actually
2008-05-10T13:42:10  <Prod> voice your opinons :P
2008-05-10T13:42:12  <Notmyhandle> k
2008-05-10T13:42:19  <Skizzerz> sure
2008-05-10T13:42:20  <Prod> ok, now to Main page
2008-05-10T13:42:33  <Prod> the one major thing we are missing on our main page is:
2008-05-10T13:42:42  <Prod> "WHY people should contribute to SW"
2008-05-10T13:43:01  <Prod> We tell them how, what to look at, but not why
2008-05-10T13:43:28  <Notmyhandle> Why are we the best...
2008-05-10T13:43:29  <Prod> One suggestion was to reduce the "Ways you can help" and add something to say what makes us special
2008-05-10T13:43:58  <Notmyhandle> Well this is sort of a scope issue
2008-05-10T13:44:06  <Notmyhandle> Full database versus cutting out the crap
2008-05-10T13:44:19  <Notmyhandle> Active community versus dirty wiki
2008-05-10T13:44:43  <Notmyhandle> Which also means we need to prioritize our cleanup projects...
2008-05-10T13:45:01  <Prod> huh?
2008-05-10T13:45:09  <Notmyhandle> There are two things there
2008-05-10T13:45:31  <Notmyhandle> 1) We focus on walkthroughs and related info.
2008-05-10T13:46:02  <Notmyhandle> 2) ...
2008-05-10T13:46:14  <Notmyhandle> I just think we are more organized than most wikis
2008-05-10T13:46:26  <Prod> much more organized :P
2008-05-10T13:46:36  <Prod> and more cohesive
2008-05-10T13:46:45  <Notmyhandle> But then I look at why i came here in the first place - to add whatever I wanted.
2008-05-10T13:46:53  <Notmyhandle> Which isn't part of the scope really
2008-05-10T13:47:18  <Notmyhandle> Wikicheats has taken off, and I don't understand how
2008-05-10T13:47:34  <Notmyhandle> Gameinfo died, but is being reintegrated by wikia somehow
2008-05-10T13:47:38  <Prod> we can leave that till the competition discussino :P
2008-05-10T13:47:48  <Notmyhandle> interwoven xD
2008-05-10T13:47:54  <Notmyhandle> Anyways why us...
2008-05-10T13:48:05  <Prod> we're open
2008-05-10T13:48:07  <Skizzerz> gameinfo has become the main wikia gaming hub, so that's kinda the opposite of dying
2008-05-10T13:48:08  <Notmyhandle> We are active.  We are gamers.
2008-05-10T13:48:29  <Notmyhandle> I haven't checked it for a while
2008-05-10T13:48:50  <Notmyhandle> We are...
2008-05-10T13:48:51  <Notmyhandle> Smarter!
2008-05-10T13:48:58  <Prod> Stronger, Better, Faster!
2008-05-10T13:49:06  <Notmyhandle> Harder?
2008-05-10T13:49:27  <Notmyhandle> I really don't know why...
2008-05-10T13:49:30  <Notmyhandle> We look better!
2008-05-10T13:49:42  <Prod> yes
2008-05-10T13:50:02  <Notmyhandle> We are GFDL
2008-05-10T13:50:05  <Notmyhandle> Not for profit
2008-05-10T13:50:12  <Notmyhandle> We are a community, not a business.
2008-05-10T13:50:20  <Prod> Well, the NfP one is kinda tough
2008-05-10T13:50:23  <Notmyhandle> right
2008-05-10T13:50:27  <Prod> cause we're not that open about our money :P
2008-05-10T13:50:59  <Prod> though, that's not by choice but by motivation :P
2008-05-10T13:51:09  <Notmyhandle> We could elaborate on our monetary policies
2008-05-10T13:51:14  <Notmyhandle> Money goes to servers and the owner
2008-05-10T13:51:18  <Prod> we have to make some first :P
2008-05-10T13:51:27  <Prod> so far all money has been going to servers and upgrades
2008-05-10T13:51:32  <Notmyhandle> I thought we are self sufficient now
2008-05-10T13:51:36  <Prod> barely
2008-05-10T13:51:43  <Notmyhandle> which is fine
2008-05-10T13:51:47  <Prod> yea
2008-05-10T13:51:57  <Prod> afaik, we're in the positive
2008-05-10T13:52:01  <Prod> i'm just not sure how much
2008-05-10T13:52:06  <Prod> anywayz
2008-05-10T13:52:07  <Notmyhandle> like$5
2008-05-10T13:52:20  <Prod> I'll start up a thread on the Main page....
2008-05-10T13:52:29  <Prod> we can figure out how to clean up the Main page
2008-05-10T13:52:38  <Prod> start up a thread on the main page talk *
2008-05-10T13:53:21  <Notmyhandle> we need epileptic gifs and music
2008-05-10T13:53:33  <Notmyhandle> 8bit game midis
2008-05-10T13:53:47  <Notmyhandle> moving on...
2008-05-10T13:54:12  <Prod> So, those were the main discussions that were brought up
2008-05-10T13:54:17  <Prod> next is various forum topics
2008-05-10T13:54:25  <Prod> the first of which is the IRC changes
2008-05-10T13:54:33  <Prod> (Skizzerz): you want to take that?
2008-05-10T13:54:45  <Skizzerz> uh... what does that all encompass again?
2008-05-10T13:54:56  <Skizzerz> :P
2008-05-10T13:55:06  <Prod> not too sure
2008-05-10T13:55:09  <Prod> pick your scope :P
2008-05-10T13:55:22  <Prod> well
2008-05-10T13:55:26  <Prod> the Chat Link in the toolbar
2008-05-10T13:55:31  <Prod> new irc page
2008-05-10T13:55:36  <Skizzerz> ah
2008-05-10T13:55:36  <Prod> anything else you feel is relevant
2008-05-10T13:55:39  <Notmyhandle> the chat link was for SW
2008-05-10T13:55:41  <Skizzerz> I'll start w/ the chat link
2008-05-10T13:56:10  <Skizzerz> We should probably put a chat link in the sidebar (the left-hand one) to encourage people to visit IRC more often
2008-05-10T13:56:31  <Skizzerz> after thinking a bit more, it'd be better to have it link to SW:IRC than the actual chat applet, however
2008-05-10T13:56:42  <Prod> I think the chat link should be implemented the same way as our SIP/SW/ABXY network stuff is done
2008-05-10T13:56:54  <Skizzerz> that could work as well
2008-05-10T13:57:00  <Prod> it's kinda a network on its own
2008-05-10T13:57:08  <Skizzerz> which we need to add THAT to sw too :)
2008-05-10T13:57:16  <Prod> yes :P
2008-05-10T13:57:22  * Prod ads that to the agenda
2008-05-10T13:57:36  <Notmyhandle> oh i see...
2008-05-10T13:57:39  <Prod> adds *
2008-05-10T13:57:44  <Notmyhandle> yeah the link no longer exists on abxy.org
2008-05-10T13:57:54  <Notmyhandle> i couldn't find it until I looked up the post on the forums
2008-05-10T13:58:17  <Skizzerz> other than that, I'm working on getting strategywiki to set a cookie for the abxy.org domain so that I can auto-fill in the nick field with strategywiki usernames as well
2008-05-10T13:58:43  <Prod> You'll have to talk to ech about that :P
2008-05-10T13:58:54  <Prod> and wouldn't all sorts of XSS stuff be opened up by that?
2008-05-10T13:58:58  <Skizzerz> no
2008-05-10T13:59:04  <Prod> setting cookies for another domain?
2008-05-10T13:59:04  <Skizzerz> it would just set a cookie with the username
2008-05-10T13:59:10  <Skizzerz> nothing else
2008-05-10T13:59:13  <Notmyhandle> not a password
2008-05-10T13:59:25  <Prod> as in the browser won't let you set cookies for another domain
2008-05-10T13:59:29  <Skizzerz> no db queries would be run, it would just check the contents of the cookie and use that to fill in the nick field
2008-05-10T13:59:32  <Skizzerz> ah, perhaps
2008-05-10T13:59:43  <Notmyhandle> advertisement cookies do it all the time...
2008-05-10T13:59:56  <Prod> I think this'll be a more major discussion, so I propose leaving this in the forums a bit longer
2008-05-10T13:59:59  <Skizzerz> I haven't looked into it yet though
2008-05-10T14:00:18  <Skizzerz> anyway, another aspect of IRC I'd link to bring up is my bot, SkizBot
2008-05-10T14:00:37  <Notmyhandle> !Harro
2008-05-10T14:00:45  <Skizzerz> Notmyhandle: they are channel-specific
2008-05-10T14:00:51  <Notmyhandle> Yeah I just failed...
2008-05-10T14:01:15  <Skizzerz> all it does at the moment is have a factoids system for easier access to information
2008-05-10T14:01:44  <Skizzerz> is there anything else you think it should have?
2008-05-10T14:02:36  <Prod> not at the moment
2008-05-10T14:02:56  <Notmyhandle> Is there a way u could have it log our login times?
2008-05-10T14:03:03  <Skizzerz> cool. and secondly (although I should've asked this first): do you think it is a good idea to even have one
2008-05-10T14:03:06  <Notmyhandle> That way we could see if people were on IRC recently
2008-05-10T14:03:13  <Skizzerz> Notmyhandle: it has a !seen command
2008-05-10T14:03:14  <Prod> a bot is helpful
2008-05-10T14:03:22  <Prod> !seen DrBob
2008-05-10T14:03:22  <SkizBot> Prod: I have not seen DrBob.
2008-05-10T14:04:02  <Prod> ok, so just to make sure it's known
2008-05-10T14:04:12  <Prod> the irc applet can be accessed from http://irc.abxy.org
2008-05-10T14:04:22  <Skizzerz> also, the bot runs on a shell service, so it should be on 24/7, which prevents banlists, etc. from being cleared as well
2008-05-10T14:04:31  <Prod> awesome
2008-05-10T14:05:40  <Prod> ok
2008-05-10T14:05:50  <Prod> so next topic is Wiki Competition
2008-05-10T14:05:58  <Prod> there are a fair number of other sites popping up
2008-05-10T14:06:09  <Prod> Wikia has been around a while
2008-05-10T14:06:25  <Prod> though they've recently started upping their efforts and merging in a lot of other guides
2008-05-10T14:06:37  <Notmyhandle> One of the things we can't really do is compete with individualized compendium sites - like WoWWiki
2008-05-10T14:07:00  <Prod> WikiCheats has also been around a year or so, though they've now started upping their promotion
2008-05-10T14:07:20  <Prod> Then there are all the independent game specific sites out there
2008-05-10T14:07:44  <Prod> WoWWiki is under wikia I think
2008-05-10T14:07:48  <Notmyhandle> it i
2008-05-10T14:07:49  <Notmyhandle> is
2008-05-10T14:07:59  <Notmyhandle> I edit there xD
2008-05-10T14:08:15  <Prod> MMORPG wikis are some of the hardest to compete with since there's so much content
2008-05-10T14:08:36  <Notmyhandle> One of the things I really like about wowwiki is they use their templates to emulate how the game displays things - like the popup tooltips on items
2008-05-10T14:08:53  <Notmyhandle> i guess thats the only feature i see... but if we could implement something like that...
2008-05-10T14:09:14  <Prod> If it's just a matter of templates, it should be fine
2008-05-10T14:09:22  <Notmyhandle> well popups seem like js
2008-05-10T14:09:28  <Notmyhandle> mouse over windows
2008-05-10T14:10:04  <Prod> (Skizzerz): do you know if there's any way to do guide specific js
2008-05-10T14:10:11  <Prod> so that it only even loads the js if you're visiting that guide
2008-05-10T14:10:20  <Skizzerz> I could set up a system to do that, yes
2008-05-10T14:10:21  <Prod> instead of adding it to common.js
2008-05-10T14:10:32  <Prod> i'm assuming it would be a js script?
2008-05-10T14:10:37  <Skizzerz> it would require one edit to common.js though :P
2008-05-10T14:10:43  <Skizzerz> to shell a different js page
2008-05-10T14:10:46  <Prod> yea
2008-05-10T14:11:08  <Skizzerz> not sure if we would make it in the MediaWiki namespace or make it somewhere else
2008-05-10T14:11:30  <Prod> It would have to be somewhere protected
2008-05-10T14:11:34  <Notmyhandle> Guide.js?
2008-05-10T14:11:38  <Notmyhandle> o
2008-05-10T14:11:48  <Prod> MediaWiki:Guide.js may be the best place
2008-05-10T14:12:13  <Prod> However, before we even start on that, it'd have to be discussed
2008-05-10T14:12:16  <Notmyhandle> Potentially we could make things much cooler for SW...
2008-05-10T14:12:27  <Notmyhandle> Think of all the games that use tooltips and such
2008-05-10T14:12:43  <Notmyhandle> at least for items/loot
2008-05-10T14:12:52  <Prod> (Skizzerz): If you have the motivation to work on a script like that, please start a forum thread on it
2008-05-10T14:12:58  <Prod> any other suggestions for wiki competitions
2008-05-10T14:13:01  <Skizzerz> sure
2008-05-10T14:13:10  <Notmyhandle> What do we need for DPL to work effectively?
2008-05-10T14:13:14  <Notmyhandle> Better servers?
2008-05-10T14:13:21  <Notmyhandle> Or servers in general xD?
2008-05-10T14:13:34  <Notmyhandle> Do we even have more than 1? I dunno.
2008-05-10T14:13:38  <Skizzerz> for the authors to write code that doesn't cause the dbs to wither and die
2008-05-10T14:14:08  <Notmyhandle> I really think the top ten lists sort of things are useful
2008-05-10T14:14:22  <Notmyhandle> A lot of people browse guides that way - on wikicheats and gamefaqs
2008-05-10T14:14:57  <Prod> wikicheats has a lot more money than us ;)
2008-05-10T14:15:20  <Prod> we currently have one server
2008-05-10T14:15:41  <Skizzerz> even Wikia's servers can't keep up with DPL, and they have around 50 or so
2008-05-10T14:16:00  <Notmyhandle> ouch...
2008-05-10T14:16:15  <Prod> the best way would be a bot
2008-05-10T14:16:24  <Notmyhandle> !
2008-05-10T14:16:28  <Prod> it runs a scan once a month and updates a page
2008-05-10T14:16:38  <Notmyhandle> i like this idea
2008-05-10T14:16:42  <Notmyhandle> fake dpl
2008-05-10T14:16:56  <Prod> however, we've gotta get some infrastructure set up before we really get bots going
2008-05-10T14:17:04  <Prod> and that's currently being worked on
2008-05-10T14:17:11  <Notmyhandle> mmk cool
2008-05-10T14:17:22  <Prod> so bots will be discussed later :P
2008-05-10T14:17:22  <Notmyhandle> im glad we have a good skin
2008-05-10T14:17:30  <Prod> yes :D
2008-05-10T14:17:32  <Notmyhandle> so we are ok on that aspect of competition
2008-05-10T14:17:33  <Prod> so really
2008-05-10T14:17:48  <Notmyhandle> if only we had more really good contributors
2008-05-10T14:17:51  <Notmyhandle> and more collaboration
2008-05-10T14:17:58  <Prod> the end point on competition is, we need to get people to edit us
2008-05-10T14:18:08  <Prod> we need content and contributors
2008-05-10T14:18:22  <Prod> both of those have been growing organically for the past two years
2008-05-10T14:19:16  <Prod> if anyone has suggestions for how to jump start either of those
2008-05-10T14:19:28  <Notmyhandle> We need to play more games together (abxy community?).
2008-05-10T14:20:13  <Bmuig> couldn't we ask sites like Kotaku to have a small article about us? to attract new people?
2008-05-10T14:20:13  <Prod> we also need a lot added to new games
2008-05-10T14:20:27  <Prod> (Bmuig): they did that once a while ago
2008-05-10T14:20:29  <Prod> and yes it did help
2008-05-10T14:20:37  <Bmuig> how long ago was that?
2008-05-10T14:20:44  <Prod> 1.5 years :P
2008-05-10T14:20:53  <Bmuig> a lot has changed since then :)
2008-05-10T14:20:59  <Prod> yes
2008-05-10T14:21:10  <Notmyhandle> If we could get a new game guide up to featured (like GTA4) I'd suggest a new digg article.
2008-05-10T14:21:28  <Prod> (Bmuig): Check out http://strategywiki.org/wiki/StrategyWiki:Statistics
2008-05-10T14:21:43  <Prod> oh, it was 2 years ago
2008-05-10T14:21:53  <Notmyhandle> Hey on the Hardcore gamers forum they have a wiki forum...
2008-05-10T14:21:54  <Bmuig> k
2008-05-10T14:22:05  <Notmyhandle> not many post there, but what is the licensing on their wiki?
2008-05-10T14:22:13  <Notmyhandle> its not GFDL is it?
2008-05-10T14:22:16  <Prod> link?
2008-05-10T14:23:11  <Notmyhandle> 1 sec
2008-05-10T14:23:36  <Notmyhandle> http://www.hardcoregamer.com/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=49
2008-05-10T14:24:09  <Prod> I think their wiki was replaced with SW
2008-05-10T14:24:10  <Prod> not too sure
2008-05-10T14:24:23  <Prod> guess they just didn't update the forums
2008-05-10T14:25:01  <Prod> ok, so any further comments
2008-05-10T14:25:04  <Notmyhandle> Right, but their wiki still exists I think...
2008-05-10T14:25:06  <Prod> either add to the forum topic
2008-05-10T14:25:10  <Notmyhandle> If you look in the threads they have links...
2008-05-10T14:25:11  <Prod> or start a new one
2008-05-10T14:25:23  <Prod> Next up is {{fact}}
2008-05-10T14:25:29  <Notmyhandle> Alrighty
2008-05-10T14:25:40  <Notmyhandle> Fact was taken from wikipedia and used in the SW wikipedia article.
2008-05-10T14:25:51  <Notmyhandle> It was marked for deletion - to be removed once we posted it.
2008-05-10T14:26:00  <Notmyhandle> It has been posted, and fact wasn't deleted.  I was about to and then...
2008-05-10T14:26:12  <Notmyhandle> I noticed on Wikipedia the use of fact (lacking citation).
2008-05-10T14:26:32  <Notmyhandle> On SW, we don't really care about notability or references.
2008-05-10T14:27:01  <Prod> We do care about notability :P
2008-05-10T14:27:02  <Notmyhandle> However, I was thinking that we could use {{fact}} to mark statements that we are unsure of.
2008-05-10T14:27:17  <Notmyhandle> Notability of facts
2008-05-10T14:27:25  <Notmyhandle> I.e. data, or whatever.
2008-05-10T14:28:03  <Prod> I think those might work themselves out if people discuss them on the talk pages properly
2008-05-10T14:28:10  <Notmyhandle> So {{fact}} would be used to mark objects for others to look into it...
2008-05-10T14:28:18  <Notmyhandle> Hmmm
2008-05-10T14:28:35  <Prod> I'm still under the opinion of "delete"
2008-05-10T14:28:38  <Prod> any other thoughts?
2008-05-10T14:28:55  <Notmyhandle> Which talk pages do we use? Main page of a guide talk page or individualized talk page?
2008-05-10T14:29:03  <Notmyhandle> I think those individual ones should be removed...
2008-05-10T14:29:17  <Prod> depends what the topic is
2008-05-10T14:29:22  <Notmyhandle> Since all game related info should be together...
2008-05-10T14:29:23  <Prod> if it's mentioned on that page
2008-05-10T14:29:25  <Prod> it goes on that page
2008-05-10T14:29:35  <Notmyhandle> Just thinking that no one will ever see it
2008-05-10T14:29:36  <Prod> anything guide-wide should be on the main talk page
2008-05-10T14:29:43  <Prod> people should have the pages in their watch lists
2008-05-10T14:29:50  <Prod> should have the same chance of being seen
2008-05-10T14:29:55  <Notmyhandle> Unless u already have the page on ur watchlist or you check recent changes at the right time...
2008-05-10T14:31:16  <Prod> so, anyone against deleting {{fact}}?
2008-05-10T14:31:22  <Notmyhandle> I guess ur right prod
2008-05-10T14:31:59  * Skizzerz votes kill
2008-05-10T14:32:17  <Prod> going once
2008-05-10T14:32:20  <Prod> going twice
2008-05-10T14:32:22  <Prod> the killers have it
2008-05-10T14:32:34  <Prod> Next is DJ Books
2008-05-10T14:32:49  <Notmyhandle> Where was that banner going to appear, on their forums?
2008-05-10T14:33:24  <Prod> isn't it already there?
2008-05-10T14:33:53  <Notmyhandle> i dont see an SW banner oneither DJB or hardcore gamer
2008-05-10T14:34:06  <Notmyhandle> we never made one did we?
2008-05-10T14:34:14  <Prod> http://www.doublejumpbooks.com/yabbse/
2008-05-10T14:34:26  <Notmyhandle> secondly we have no DJB notice on DJB pages - even ones with the DJB template
2008-05-10T14:34:41  <Notmyhandle> prod i see no banner
2008-05-10T14:34:48  <Prod> it's right at the top
2008-05-10T14:34:51  <Prod> have you got it adblocked?
2008-05-10T14:35:39  <Notmyhandle> im using firefox
2008-05-10T14:35:48  <Prod> it shows up fine to me
2008-05-10T14:35:52  <Prod> right at the top of that page
2008-05-10T14:35:57  <Notmyhandle> in the center?
2008-05-10T14:35:58  <Prod> using firefox
2008-05-10T14:35:59  <Prod> yea
2008-05-10T14:36:12  <Prod> right above the "DoubleJump Books Message Board" text
2008-05-10T14:36:34  <Notmyhandle> between that and "news" yeah doesn't appear
2008-05-10T14:36:49  <Prod> are you using adblock?
2008-05-10T14:37:07  <Notmyhandle> i dont even know what that is
2008-05-10T14:37:12  <Prod> it's an extension
2008-05-10T14:37:16  <Notmyhandle> no
2008-05-10T14:37:18  <Notmyhandle> no extensions on it
2008-05-10T14:37:22  <Prod> weird
2008-05-10T14:37:24  <Prod> it's definately there
2008-05-10T14:37:37  <Notmyhandle> im checking with IE7
2008-05-10T14:37:40  <Prod> (Skizzerz): do you see the banner?
2008-05-10T14:38:16  <Notmyhandle> doesn't appear in IE7 either
2008-05-10T14:38:21  <Notmyhandle> prod clear ur cache
2008-05-10T14:38:21  <Skizzerz> yeah, I see it
2008-05-10T14:38:30  <Prod> (Notmyhandle): I think it's something on your end
2008-05-10T14:38:32  <Notmyhandle> on http://www.doublejumpbooks.com/yabbse/ ? wtf
2008-05-10T14:38:41  <Prod> yep
2008-05-10T14:38:46  <Notmyhandle> can u link me the image url?
2008-05-10T14:38:58  <Prod> http://www.doublejumpbooks.com/yabbse/rj3abq.jpg
2008-05-10T14:39:56  <Prod> ok, if there's nothign else to bring up
2008-05-10T14:40:17  <Prod> I'll continue on to "Control Selector"
2008-05-10T14:40:22  <Notmyhandle> that image doesn't appear in the source...
2008-05-10T14:40:35  <Notmyhandle> {{Control Selector}} does not function on IE
2008-05-10T14:40:55  <Notmyhandle> Now although most of us don't use IE (and thus care) - this is a problem for many users
2008-05-10T14:41:11  <Prod> 60% of our traffic is IE
2008-05-10T14:41:26  <Notmyhandle> To fix the problem we either modify the template somehow (and the js), remove the template from use, or provide an alternate solution...
2008-05-10T14:41:53  <Notmyhandle> On one of the SSBB pages that use control selector, a user even went ahead and added one of the alternate controls that was in control selector
2008-05-10T14:41:58  <Notmyhandle> however the change was reverted
2008-05-10T14:42:04  <Prod> well if it doesn't show up for IE, it's not a loss of functionality, just not a gain
2008-05-10T14:42:06  <Notmyhandle> Atm that page only displays wii controls for IE users
2008-05-10T14:42:20  <Notmyhandle> The box appears, the js changes do not function
2008-05-10T14:42:24  <Prod> hmmm
2008-05-10T14:42:29  <Notmyhandle> thus, only the main control can be viewed
2008-05-10T14:42:31  <Prod> actually, yes I remember checking that
2008-05-10T14:42:58  <Prod> that'll have to be up to DrBob to figure out
2008-05-10T14:43:07  <Prod> whenever I see him I'll work with him on fixing that
2008-05-10T14:43:35  <Prod> Is there anything else people would like to bring up?
2008-05-10T14:43:55  <Notmyhandle> DB wanted to talk about people's opinions on cats
2008-05-10T14:44:07  <Skizzerz> DB told me he wanted it postponed until he's here
2008-05-10T14:44:09  <Prod> unfortunately he's not here
2008-05-10T14:44:12  <Prod> so it's postponed
2008-05-10T14:44:23  <Notmyhandle> k
2008-05-10T14:44:31  <Prod> anything else?
2008-05-10T14:44:34  <Skizzerz> also, Prod: you can make other people local mods of the strategywiki forum in your user control panel :)
2008-05-10T14:44:45  <Prod> ohrly?!
2008-05-10T14:44:49  <Skizzerz> yep
2008-05-10T14:45:06  <Prod> sweet
2008-05-10T14:45:17  <Prod> so hopefully we'll have a bunch more local mods soon :)
2008-05-10T14:45:24  <Skizzerz> :P
2008-05-10T14:45:32  <Prod> any other discussinos people would like to have before we are adjourned?
2008-05-10T14:45:39  <Skizzerz> none that I can think of
2008-05-10T14:45:46  <Prod> In that case
2008-05-10T14:45:50  <Prod> thank you all for attending
2008-05-10T14:45:59  <Prod> our next meeting will be in 3 or 4 weeks
2008-05-10T14:46:11  <Prod> on the 7th of June
2008-05-10T14:46:22  <Prod> same time, same place
2008-05-10T14:46:33  <Prod> the Google calendar will have information about the agenda
2008-05-10T14:46:45  <Prod> if you would like anything added, leave an admin a message
2008-05-10T14:47:05  <Prod> Until next time, happy editing :)